[00:00:00]

Jeff Kikel: Good morning, sense of things. It’s  Jeff and Ron here. And the first week of January,  

2024, cannot believe we’ve blown  through a year. So fast, Ron,  

how you doing, bud? Happy new year,  Jeff doing well. I, I agree with you,  

I thought the year was going pretty quick  up to Thanksgiving. And then December,  

just the blink of an eye, I guess it’s  just the holidays, it wasn’t slow for me.

Jeff Kikel: But looking at 2024, going into  2023 I think we felt pretty confident about  

where things were going, even though  things were going to be volatile,  

I gotta tell you 2024 is such an unknown.  You better just roll the dice. Yeah,  

really I think [00:01:00] we’re end up  higher. We’ll talk about that in a minute,  

but I think it’s going to be a  hell of a windy road to get there.

Jeff Kikel: I am right there with  you. And I think I. They did that  

when I sent my stuff to you last night that  I think we’re all over the fence for quite  

a while. It’s going to be a nutso year  and a lot of reasons why. So I thought,  

why don’t we start off at least the  new year with some weird state laws.

Jeff Kikel: That are on the books. Oh God.  We could do episodes on that . So gimme  

a second. Let me bring this sucker  up here. ’cause I thought this was  

a great way to get, it’s one of those a few  months back. You had a couple of good ones.  

We did that early in the early in the  show actually was doing some of these.

Jeff Kikel: But I figured it was a great way  to start off and we’ll start off with your  

home state of Arizona. It is illegal, by  the way, to hunt camels. Yeah. So no camel  

hunting. I don’t care if your neighbor  has got [00:02:00] one that’s in their  

backyard and is baying. You cannot shoot  the camel. I am sure we had to import them,  

but I’ll be honest coming out here almost 24  years, I haven’t seen any camels in Arizona.

Jeff Kikel: Apparently there’s 3000 camels  in the United States. There are wild camels  

in Arizona. So just so you know, you  are not allowed to shoot them. If you  

do be very quiet hunting camels. I Will  tell you, I know that they do have parts  

for wild horses that just run around.  Obviously this is their environment.

Jeff Kikel: So they would definitely  like it during the summer wild camels  

too are all over the place it is illegal to  wear a fake mustache that causes laughter  

In kansas, can they put that law in the  place after you left? I think so. Yeah,  

it was it was during my kansas porn  days you know in the early 80s.

Jeff Kikel: So yeah, you’re no longer  Allowed to wear a mustache and, sorry,  

it was me. I [00:03:00] caused it. All right.  California, it is illegal to use a gasoline  

powered vacuum in your home, just so that, I  don’t even know there was such a thing. I’m  

California does not surprise me in their ability  to come up with things that don’t even exist, but.

Jeff Kikel: What I’m wondering is there  won’t be any more Jimmy Buffett concerts,  

but at Jimmy Buffett concerts, I wonder if it’s,  

if it was okay to use a gasoline powered  blender. Out there so that they may not be  

allowed to do that either. I got to tell you and  if they did, they probably would tax you on it.

Jeff Kikel: So I’m sure. Yeah, there’s got  to be some kind of tax on it. Connecticut,  

just so that, to be sold as a legitimate pickle,  

the pickle must be able to bounce. Just so  that, there are, like, some kind of. pIckle  

police that go around and bounce pickles.  To make sure that they are a legal pickle.

Jeff Kikel: What you should have done here, Jeff,  is put in the repercussions. Is this [00:04:00] a  

fine? Yes. Yeah. If I have a soggy pickle,  are you this a strip search? What’s going on  

here? Yeah. If I have a soggy pickle what’s  the repercussions of it? Or is it just not a  

legitimate pickle? Jeff, if you got a soggy  pickle, this is a different conversation.

Jeff Kikel: We got issues, yeah. Idaho, now  apparently this was a big problem, but Idaho,  

it is against the law to be a cannibal.  You’re not, it’s not acceptable even if  

you had to do it during a life threatening  situation. So hopefully there will not be  

any rugby teams crashing into the mountains of  Idaho because they’re going to be up a creek.

Jeff Kikel: Or maybe they might get wild  with their potatoes. Who knows? That’s true.  

They want you to eat potatoes, not people.  Louisiana it is not allowed to fight a bear,  

to wrestle a bear. It explains  a lot why Davy Crockett didn’t  

stop in Louisiana on his way to Texas. He  was into the whole bear wrestling thing.

Jeff Kikel: So no Louisiana wrestling  bears. [00:05:00] Okay, Maryland,  

it is not allowed to wear sleeveless shirts  in Baltimore parks. Now, we do know from  

watching cops that the guy who’s not wearing  a shirt period is definitely the criminal,  

but apparently even sleeveless shirts, you’re  the criminal. So hold on a second. So this is  

just in Baltimore, but we can wear it  in Salisbury, Maryland, or Bethesda.

Jeff Kikel: Anywhere else. Apparently you’re  good. You cannot have a sleeveless shirt,  

even if you’re working out. Okay. All right. No,  no wife beaters, no nothing on you. You gotta  

have a full sleeve shirt on Texas. I remember that  when I go to fell’s point, just so you know, yeah,  

just, you cannot, walk around the, you can’t even  walk around the inner city or the Harbor park.

Jeff Kikel: With without a sleeve or  without sleeves on. So just so you  

know finally in my home state of Texas,  you can sell hair, you can sell blood,  

but you’re not allowed to sell a [00:06:00] human  eye in the state of Texas. Just in case you were  

looking for a transplant exactly. I see him on the  I thought I’ve seen him on the side of the street,  

on little stands stuff like that, but  we’re keeping an eye out for you, Jeff.

Jeff Kikel: That’s what absolutely.  They definitely keep an eye out for  

you. So that’s that’s my take on it.  We’ll have some economic stuff later,  

but I thought. Just so that we understand the  rules as we’re going around the country this year,  

we we make sure we have sleeves in Baltimore  and we try not to eat people in Idaho.

Jeff Kikel: So unbelievable. All right.  Let’s get into some serious stuff. I know  

I put out a market outlook report that’s  available for download and. I know we  

wanna we don’t have time, in a 15, 20 minute  podcast to go through all the details. So I  

thought what would be good is to share  our thoughts going in the next year.

Jeff Kikel: ’cause there is carryover from  this year Yeah. On some headwinds and some  

tailwinds. So I’ll let you kind start it off  here with what as [00:07:00] some of your  

headwinds going into 2024. I think, for  me being also owning several businesses.  

I think credit both for businesses and  individuals is going to be a challenge.

Jeff Kikel: We’ve seen on the individual level  credit go through the roof and people are,  

it’s okay, spend it now. And the end is near spend  it all now. But. The challenge is the credit card  

companies are not really as willing to up, update  their their credit standards or increased credit.

Jeff Kikel: I think people are starting to run  to the end of the wire when it comes to that  

credit from a business perspective is getting  harder especially for really small businesses,  

micro businesses that utilize  the the regional banking system.  

I think there is credit out there  for small to mid sized businesses.

Jeff Kikel: That’s a, an investment theme. I  have. This year we are investing a lot in credit,  

so a lot of [00:08:00] business development  corporations other credit facilities. For  

mid to small size companies, which I  think. That’s an area of interesting  

growth. There’s good dividends in it.  And with rates potentially coming down,  

those things will still have  pretty high rates on them.

Jeff Kikel: My other one is  the presidential election,  

I think is It’s just, it’s going to  be crazy. And this one is going to be  

crazy times two. You’ve got one presidential  candidate with 90 charges against him. The  

other one that’s potentially, in the  middle of an impeachment proceeding.

Jeff Kikel: It’s just absolutely craziness.  Going on and all the other candidates are  

just fighting for any kind of recognition at  all We’re becoming a banana republic Yes Very  

much. So and we used to laugh at this, but  we’re getting there and then my final theme  

on the headwind side is You know, everybody has  this belief that the fed’s gonna cut interest  

rates I the [00:09:00] big headwind is they could  easily keep rates relatively high for this year.

Jeff Kikel: And I think if they do start rate  or lowering rates on a precipitous basis,  

something’s really bad in the economy and you  don’t want to see it. Yeah, I agree as you can see  

my first one there is about the high fed interest  rate and The interesting thing about this is I  

know we laugh about it now, but last april may  june They were talking about a couple rate cuts in  

late 2023 and that was I think in place from the  end of 22 Thinking that there would definitely be  

a recession by the end of the year obviously  by mid year, that wasn’t going to happen.

Jeff Kikel: And then all of a sudden, and I read a  couple of things last night that they’re expecting  

potentially a rate cut as early as March. Yeah.  And two to three for the year at a minimum up  

to six. If we have three forget about six if  we have three rate cuts this year and let’s  

say there were 25 base point [00:10:00] Cuts  something happened whether it was minor moderate  

or major Something happened the consumer slowed  higher unemployment rate, whatever it may be.

Jeff Kikel: I don’t know But going into  that, mortgage rates are around six and  

two thirds six and three quarters right now  if they remain relatively high relatively  

above six percent for the year And the only way  they’re going to go down is if the fed rate cut  

fed cuts at least 50 basis points for the year  Will we see mortgage rates under six percent?

Jeff Kikel: So that means one of our  headwinds is you know new homes people  

are buying it. They got money but existing  homes Just not going to happen. The other  

thing is the business bankruptcies spiked  about three months ago, four months ago.  

And I haven’t gotten any new data on it,  but the fed’s going to have high rates.

Jeff Kikel: And people are spending like  there’s no tomorrow the old yolo life,  

right? You only live once the personal  [00:11:00] bankruptcies have to go up and  

the other interesting part of that, you know  We’re not going to get in every one of these  

is just some of the honorable mentions These are  the usual suspects that we dealt with For most of  

last year talking about so between the credit  card balance is over a trillion We’ve talked  

about ad nauseum the student loans, being back in  place as of october I know you’re going to talk  

about that in a little bit just those two things  alone Have got to push people to the brink that  

they’ve got to potentially file for Personal  bankruptcy and commercial real estate loans.

Jeff Kikel: I don’t know if  that’s going to break this year,  

but apparently it’s starting at the end  of this year and will escalate into 2025,  

the refinancing of commercial real estate.  And most of these places aren’t even at a  

70 or 80 percent occupancy. What are your  thoughts? Oh yeah. And I think that’s it.

Jeff Kikel: People made a lot of deal out of it,  

but I, I don’t think that the shoes  really going to fall until 2025. I,  

I don’t think we’re [00:12:00] going to  see much of it this year, but I think  

2025 is going to be massive. And, unless these  building owners figure out something else to do.

Jeff Kikel: I know in New York, they’re  rejiggering a lot of buildings. To make them,  

to make them residential buildings and things  like that. The challenge that you have with  

that is It’s a freaking war zone on the street.  So who wants to live in the city? At that point,  

continually in their increasing taxes  next year, or maybe is it this year,  

I think they’re trying to institute a wealth tax,  which California has been trying to do forever.

Jeff Kikel: It ain’t gonna happen. I don’t  care how liberal the states are. The wealth  

tax is a bad idea. What are you going  to do when your asset goes down the next  

year? You’re going to get too much credit.  Please. Yeah. And the wealth tax is a bad  

idea. Yeah. And the thing is they’ll try and  pull it off, but how do you value all that?

Jeff Kikel: How do you value? The properties that  people have and everything else. So [00:13:00] are  

you going to require? Yeah. You’re going to  create more costs for the government to try  

and police that. It’s not going to work.  Yeah. It’s just stupid. Yeah. It’s well,  

people will be honest about their  wealth and they’ll report it.

Jeff Kikel: I remember Florida used to  have that idiotic law that was It was  

basically a wealth tax. And that was, anything  that was in non governmental securities,  

like savings and things like that, they used  to tax you at the end of the year. And it was  

this idiotic thing. I remember when I worked  for Fidelity that people would move money,  

like the last day of the year, they  would move a crap, a ton of money.

Jeff Kikel: Into into government money, market  fund, or, like municipal money market funds, so  

they can avoid the, this idiotic wealth tax. It’s  all these stupid little ways that, Oh yeah, we’re  

going to make, this is the way we’re going to  come up with our budget shortfall. How about this?

Jeff Kikel: How about stop spending a ton of  money? That’s a great way to do it. I agree  

with you. Again, this was [00:14:00] brought  up a couple years ago. I had a couple clients  

that were freaking out. I’m like, all it is  a trial balloon. Just in order for this to go  

through too many people need to be leaning  on one side of the boat to make it happen.

Jeff Kikel: It ain’t gonna happen.  Let’s move on to some tailwinds. So  

you’re gonna be positive. I’ll  let you start off. Once again,  

I think the we will probably see some  rate cuts. I think the market is actually  

pushing rates down a little bit more. They’re  doing the feds job in a little bit of a case.

Jeff Kikel: Although rates are back up a  little bit this week. I think rates dropping,  

that helps with a resurgence in real estate.  Real estate’s really come to a screeching  

halt. A little bit in the building  industry, in the new home industry,  

mainly because they’re able to do a  little bit from a finance perspective,  

they can do a little bit of juking  and jiving from a finance perspective.

Jeff Kikel: But, I think rates dropping  those people that want to [00:15:00] move,  

that are looking at. I’ve got a 3 percent  loan and I’m going to get an 8%, new home  

loan that are just not moving. Yeah. You see some  rates drop, you’re going to see some movement.  

And that’s always good because when you see  movement, new people coming into a community.

Jeff Kikel: It starts to help, it’s a  expansive effect because, people move in,  

they need to buy new furniture, they need to go  to Home Depot, blah, blah, blah. All of that,  

when people are just sticking in their houses,  and most of them had done all their updates,  

the Home Depots, the Lowe’s  of the world really struggle.

Jeff Kikel: I think another tailwind is continued  strong employment. We’ll we’ll talk about that in  

a few minutes here. And then increased strength  in the market breath. We’re starting to see  

the market widen out and, not just. 7 to 10  stocks that are really dominating everything.

Jeff Kikel: We’ve seen a little bit of  a market breath expansion towards the  

end of 2023. I predict [00:16:00] that  we’ll see a little bit more of that,  

which means that’s a more healthy way.  If he looked at the market last year,  

besides about 20 to 25 stocks. Everything else  was pretty much either down or flat for the year.

Jeff Kikel: So it’ll be interesting. When  you look at when we look back in the,  

five to 10 years for those people that didn’t  experience this year, you’re going to look at  

2023 and go, Oh man, it was an amazing year in  the markets. The reality is it really wasn’t,  

it was a really screwed up year in the  markets with a very small group of stocks.

Jeff Kikel: Leading the pack and making the  indices look like they were up massively.  

Yep I’m gonna ride that last coattail  of yours and I wanted to bring it up.  

I thought it was interesting I saw this stat  the other day Typically and this has been a  

given over the last 100 plus years in a  market The top 10 stocks are responsible  

for a decent percentage of the overall  market move last year the [00:17:00] top  

10 stocks We’re responsible for 75  percent of the S and P 500 moves.

Jeff Kikel: So in the prior 10 years,  the most it had been like 2019 was 53%.  

2020 was 59%. And of course those top 10  stocks, really moved up 75 percent last  

year. And you could see already a lot  of that sell off has been going on in  

the first three days of of this calendar  year. Yeah, so going on to my real quick.

Jeff Kikel: I agree with you about the the  employment as long as a consumer is spending  

A lot of other things will stay in place, even  if it’s built on a house of cards Right and the  

consumer spending we’re going to get it last year  They expected corporate earnings to be down 10 to  

11 And ended up being up a few percentage points  next year They’re looking for corporate earnings  

to be [00:18:00] up 10 or 11 percent this year  20 or 11 So I believe that if we actually hit  

those numbers And or exceed them market’s  got to get markets got to fly most of the  

year not just post presidential election And  I do believe there will be a couple of rate  

cuts But not until the second half of the year  and if those rate cuts are only a quarter of a  

point each That’s not a major major cog  in the wheel to keep the economy going,  

if anything else, all that is, is just, gently  stepping on the accelerator for the economy.

Jeff Kikel: And then obviously  some of our honorable mentions.  

The economy is just getting comfortable  with high rates and we’re going to stay  

above 4. 5 or 5 percent and we just deal  with it. Okay. Existing homes will slow,  

but if people got to move, they got to  move, right? Yeah. That’s the thing.

Jeff Kikel: And especially, it depends on  the employment situation. [00:19:00] If  

employment’s good, people may be having to  move. I Think there’s other opportunities  

in today’s world with with remote, especially in  the tech world. They can work remotely in a lot  

of cases. People are looking at different places  to move around the country and everything else.

Jeff Kikel: So I think yes, that initial  shock, but people get used to it and,  

you just build it into your budget. I  agree. Low us dollar. If the dollar’s  

been going down in the last six to eight  months. And if it continues to go down,  

that’s only going to help export it.  People want to buy more of our goods.

Jeff Kikel: Our earnings expansion so  earnings keep expanding and or every  

quarter if companies end up Guiding  higher on their earnings instead of  

still remaining neutral or negative like  they did most of last year That’s going  

to push the market up and then of course our  infamous always caveat No geopolitical event.

Jeff Kikel: Yeah, there’s no geopolitical event  and things [00:20:00] simmer down a little bit  

The temperature gets lowered on it, which I  don’t see how things have already escalated in  

the last week But if there’s no geopolitical  event markets got to levitate either at the  

current or higher levels Well, and you know  you this is the last year of a presidential  

year you know now you’ve got a team that’s  been in place for a long time Typically these  

Overseas wackadoodles that caused all kinds  of havoc typically don’t do much during that.

Jeff Kikel: They try and start to poke and prod  going into a new administration. That, it’s  

if buying gets reelected, you already know what  you’re experiencing from that perspective. There’s  

already a team in place if you have a turnover and  a changeover. There’s new, new people in place.

Jeff Kikel: You’ve got, they’re trying  to get secretaries and all the different,  

offices and everything else or all the, the  different heads of departments and,[00:21:00]  

that’s typically when you see a lot of  that, although we’re going into this year  

with a lot of headwind from just craziness  all over the world at this point, I agree.

Jeff Kikel: So putting it all together  for our business case. For next year. Why  

don’t you talk about your numbers? I got  ranges from my market outlook But yeah,  

you seem like if this is you seem actually  just positive in general between your base  

case and bull Yeah, a base case in  bull. I think base case i’m around  

nine percent 51 27 from current levels  or at least what they were yesterday.

Jeff Kikel: I don’t know where they are today  bullish case is up about 12 for the year 52  

68. I don’t really see us Getting super  high this year. And then my bear case is  

down 8 percent for the year, 4387. A relatively  tight range from the high to the low for me. My,  

my take on this is I think we’re gonna see  a lot [00:22:00] of volatility this year.

Jeff Kikel: I would expect volatility to  be up significantly. Mainly because a lot  

of those headwinds, like a political,  a crazy political election. This year I  

just think there’s a lot of stuff going on  in the world. I think it’s possible that,  

we have decent earnings on companies this year.

Jeff Kikel: The year over year case, I, it was not  a great year for earnings. In 03 year over year is  

probably going to look a little bit better if we  have some good stuff. But, I think we’re probably  

going to be positive. I just don’t think we’re  going to be. Off the charts positive this year.

Jeff Kikel: No, I hear you. I have a much more  detailed explanation and my market outlook,  

but I believe we’re going to be higher.  So I’m more leaning towards my bullish  

case and my base game, but I’m not like  a. You know a flag waving bull Yeah,  

I think we’re going to be higher because once the  certainty of the presidential election is over.

Jeff Kikel: I think the market’s going to fly  But between now and then it ain’t going to be  

a [00:23:00] straight line to get there I if I  think our base case is a lot of the top seven  

or eight stocks I don’t think they’re going to be  a lot higher by the end of the year I think we’re  

going to be propped up by the rest of the market  as far as them trying to do catch up because most  

of them were flat to negative for 2023 And I  just truly believe my bear case if something  

does happen, people are looking for the exits I  just think we’re going to go down a lot quicker.

Jeff Kikel: It’s the escalator up in the elevator  down and I just think if we’re going to go down  

and something’s going to break or something major  is going to happen. We’re going down. We’re going  

to go down that floor. We hit almost a 4100.  Level at in a late october of last year and  

that was a strong floor And something major  has to happen in order to get through that.

Jeff Kikel: So if something happens I think we’re  just going to crash right through that. Yeah,  

I hope it doesn’t happen but Again, I [00:24:00]  just can’t see us just you know meandering along  

here Absolutely. All right. All right. I know  you want to go over a couple more items. Yeah  

let me pull up here, we were talking about  employment Let me pull up a couple things.

Jeff Kikel: It was pretty much a quiet week  this week on the the economic outlook. But  

interesting this morning actually yesterday  and today. So jobless claims the consensus  

was about 218. So we came in right  around there. Interestingly enough,  

they revised down the previous month  or actually revised up a little bit.

Jeff Kikel: So you know, jobless claims hanging  around where they are, so we’re not seeing any  

major rise there. The ADP never, oops, that’s the  problem. Hang on one second here, let me change  

this out, I just realized I put the same thing in  twice. So give me one second here. To add this in,  

but I think the interesting thing [00:25:00]  this morning was the ADP report, which came in.

Jeff Kikel: Now I’m not a huge fan of ADP  because they’ve been wrong or their stuff  

has not been as predictive, but 164, 000 new  payrolls. Blew out the range of 99 to one 30,  

which, once again, I think is like  driving a truck through Consensus  

was one 15 and we came in at 1 64. So it’s gonna  be interesting to see the jobs number tomorrow.

Jeff Kikel: This will be Friday of this week and  see what actually comes in. As far as employment,  

you know that’s a major part. It’s  one of my themes in there that,  

that continued strong employment is  a headwind. Or is a tailwind behind  

the economy. Their number could be good.  Because unemployment ticked down in November.

Jeff Kikel: So I know this is December’s numbers,  but it may have ticked down. We’ll have to see  

tomorrow we’re going to get the unemployment  for December. [00:26:00] So next week, we’ll  

talk about that a little bit more detail. Yeah,  absolutely. The final thing I wanted to go over,  

we’ve been talking about student loans and,  everybody kicking in with student loans.

Jeff Kikel: Here’s the deal. There is a  massive student loan strike or student  

debt strike that there’s just a whole bunch  of people that said, you know what? I don’t  

want to pay. Yeah, I’m screw you. I don’t  want to pay it. So 40 percent of borrowers,  

student loan borrowers have not made  a payment since the beginning of.

Jeff Kikel: After the moratorium here  in October when things started back up,  

40 percent of people decided not to do it.  Now, is it all of them on strike? I don’t think  

so. The administration has done an absolutely  horrible job of communicating that, hey, it’s  

on and you’ve got to pay. You had the president  coming out and saying, Oh we’re going to do  

stuff to get rid of student loan debt and all  this confuse the heck out of a lot of people.

Jeff Kikel: But I think there is a large  group of people [00:27:00] who just said,  

screw you. I’m not going to do it.  And I don’t know, what politician,  

what’s the government going to do? What’s  the IRS going to do? On all of this. Who’s  

collecting on all of this because it’s  mostly it’s federal student loan debt.

Jeff Kikel: Who’s going to be the collector  on all of this? What’s going to go on? Are  

they going to have to hire collections?  They’ve gotten a bill. You get a bill,  

you pay it. Yes. We’d see. They said 60 percent  made a payment in October. So this kind of just  

goes in a line where we’re talking about  as a possible headwind for this year.

Jeff Kikel: Yeah. If 40 percent isn’t  going to pay their student loan,  

guess what? The government’s going to  have to come after them. Yeah. They’re  

going to have to make a decision. Here’s the  reality of that, that 40%. Pay the student  

loan or pay the credit card debt. Yeah.  But here’s the reality of that, that 40%.

Jeff Kikel: It’s 8. 8 million people  that are just saying, screw it,  

I’m not going to do it. [00:28:00]  It’s insane. Once again, we have a,  

I think a generation. My guess is a lot of those  are this current generation, Gen Z, Gen X. Or,  

or Gen Z millennials that are just like I don’t  want to do it. So I’m just not going to do it.

Jeff Kikel: And all right, don’t do it,  but it’s going to come back and bite you  

in the end. It’s going to ruin your credit  rating and everything else. Obviously they  

don’t care. That is precisely correct.  I think they don’t care. And then the  

politicians will pander to them and say  we’ll, we’ll figure out something or,  

we won’t make it count against you for  this 1st year or something like that.

Jeff Kikel: You’ve had 3 years to  figure this out. We’ve had 3 years  

of not having to pay probably 1 to almost 2  years too long. Yeah. Sorry. I think you got  

a job. You pay your bills. That’s  exactly right. And you know what,  

if you can’t live in the nicest place that are the  place you want to live, you live where you had to.

Jeff Kikel: And that’s the way I, it’s  the way I did. I lived in an apartment.  

You’ve [00:29:00] not lived a true life  unless you have had a, an electrical spool,  

a wooden electrical spool As a dinner table. So  I hear you. We got to stop with the handouts,  

but that’s a separate conversation. So next week.

Jeff Kikel: Absolutely. Folks, thank you  for joining us today. I hope you learned  

a lot. Hopefully you’ll hold our feet to  the fire. We will have to come back at  

the end of the year. We didn’t do this  last year because we weren’t doing the  

show at that time. So we’ll come back  at the end of the year and see what our  

predictions were and see if we are  even remotely close at this point.

Jeff Kikel: I hear you looking forward to  it. Awesome. Thanks folks. Make sure that you  

subscribe to the channel and Make sure that you  put that little notification button on that pops  

up so that you know when the shows come out and  we will See you guys back here the very next week