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COT Ep 18 === Jeff Kikel: [00:00:00] Good morning. Sense of things. That’s Jeff and Ron. We are in

the midst of a kind of a crazy week. So we’re going to talk a little bit today about credit

downgrades. We’re going to talk about earning season. We’re going to talk a lot about what’s going on in the markets and our thoughts going forward.

Good morning, my friend. Morning, Jeff. It’s August. It is August. Yes, it’s the hot days

of August 2 still. We’re we just crested over our record over 100 days I think 28 days now

which, which crested the record of the year I moved to Austin when it was just hotter

than blazes. We’re spending a lot of time inside. I hear you. No. I feel the same. But no, the good thing is that August is a huge vacation

month. Yeah. Most of wall street goes away. They closed out a lot of positions. So we shouldn’t see a lot of volatility this month. That’s for sure. Hopefully not [00:01:00]

unless the computers are trading in their stead. Always trading computers. Yeah and they can be a little volatile, so we may see some volatility,

but not by the humans. Speaking of heat I was doing a little bit of, our current events

type stuff and I had heard just a quick little story and remembered a story in the past here

about a car carrier that had caught on fire off the Virginia coast. It was a Mercedes, the I think VW and Mercedes and literally the entire ship caught on fire

sunk right in the harbor of of one of the big East Coast ports and they had to go in,

dismantle it, peel that off. Just heard this in the news. There was a, another massive

fire off the coast of the Dutch coast of another car carrier carrying electric cars.

That just, they finally got it put out after [00:02:00] about five days and they’ve towed it back into port. But yeah, it’s just, the ship is totally ruined. And I think there

was like 1400 cars on board that are completely ruined at this point. I think the challenge

of of our world of switching to electric cars and everything else.

And I just happened to notice on this maritime executive. I was just buzzing through here

and here’s one I didn’t hear about as well. Right off of New Jersey, another one of these

at the dock caught on fire and they were trying to fight, trying to fight the fire. So this

is a whole new world that we’re we’re experiencing with these big ship fires like this and traditional

firefighting. Just pouring water on it just doesn’t do it with these electric cars. It’s amazing because

if the cars aren’t on, how are they spontaneously combusting? I don’t know. And the scary part

[00:03:00] about this is what happens when one of these things does something like this

in my house, if it’s in the garage, I haven’t heard of any of that though. Oh, I’ve heard of a little bit of it. There’s been some Teslas and things like that, that

have spontaneously combusted. And, I think the more you get. Some of these other manufacturers

and, Tesla has been doing this for 10 years. Some of these other manufacturers are just now bringing out their first gen of these cars.

And, you can have problems and when they light off. I’m a big fan of the show the Grand Tour.

Which, it’s the old guys from the English show Top Gear. And one of them wrecked a car

on, I think the first season of the grand tour on Amazon. And, it was a real high performance.

One of these cars wrecked it. They put the fire out on site, put it in a warehouse, and

it caught fire, I think five times after that in the warehouse. ? Yeah. I Where’s the QC

on [00:04:00] all that? I don’t know. That’s interesting. Yeah. I mean it’s just, it’s scary to think, and it’s massive shipping losses.

That we’re starting to see as a result of this. This is something my old my old co host

on this show used to be obsessed with, but there are literally massive amounts of shipping

fires happening. They were saying that the kind of the international community is.

Starting to do more and more of these studies and also like going on board these ships to

look at their fire suppression and stuff like that, because there’s been a series, no way. Some of all this stuff is coincidental. There’s gotta be some sabotage here. It doesn’t make

any sense. I don’t think it’s sabotage. I think it’s just, you’ve got these big container ships that have so much stuff on them that if something, no, if they’ve got some kind of Material on

board that could catch fire and then it becomes, it’s like a tinder box at that point. Yeah,

interesting. I thought it was [00:05:00] an interesting story to share today because, it’s just, I

think it’s a, it’s an interesting world with these ginormous carriers and things like that.

Crazy. You know what? And then the port of Newark too, is one of the largest in the country

next to a long beach out in LA. Yeah. Very interesting. Yeah. I think the big news of the week was yesterday we had

a credit downgrade. Yeah. What’s your thoughts on that? Not surprising long overdue. Look,

there’s what a dozen or so credit agencies. There’s three big ones, which were all under

significant scrutiny 15 years ago with the way they were in wall street’s pocket rating

all the the crappy paper on the mortgages and everything else. And I thought it was interesting because, you learn from history. So S and P downgraded

our debt back in 2011 and is basically kept at a double a plus since 2011, [00:06:00]

never changed. Fitch has had us debt basically on market outlook, negative market outlook,

watch negative, whatever, couple of different times. Now, all of a sudden they decided to downgrade it to double a plus and Moody’s who was the

the poster child for all this BS 15 years ago, hasn’t changed their outlook, even the

negative watch or anything since they get, they still have it as triple a, they all have the same data. What’s the difference here.

We’ll look, I, a couple of podcasts ago, we talked about the mounting. Debt that we’re

paying what one to 2 trillion a year just in interest payments. Yeah, that’s not going

down. That’s going up That’s going that’s a nice part of our gdp is just us paying interest

payments These rating agencies see and understand that because that came out in the report with

fitch [00:07:00] So what are the other two agencies seeing all of a sudden that they’re

not even downgrading it that much more? Not that I want it to happen, but just reality of it happening. It’s okay you should both,

you should all three be relatively close. But also. If our debt, if you just looked

at the numbers and didn’t put the United States name in front of it, it would be a single

light. It wouldn’t even be double. It would be single. Hey, I don’t think it’d be triple B because we have the printing press,

but if this was Britain debt with those numbers, there’s no way it would even be double a plus.

Yeah. And of course the European countries. It’s all based on on, the Euro and the common

there, but yeah, I agree. And it’s just our. Mystique of, oh, the United States that’s that I think keeps it there.

But, I honestly look at it [00:08:00] as what does this really mean from the rating agencies?

It means nothing in the end because it meant something to wall street. We’ve seen a significant

pullback last couple of days. I think it’ll continue throughout August. Who knows? But, in the end from what I understand,

many of the. Investment banks, when they’re looking at their balance sheets, when they’re

valuing those assets, I didn’t realize, and again, my ignorance that they use the rating

agencies rate ratings on bonds. To price the asset value on their balance sheets. So because it went down to double

a plus from AAA, that’s going to affect many of these wall street banks balance sheets.

And I didn’t realize necessarily the two were correlated because more or less you’re looking what’s today’s price. That’s what goes on the balance sheet, through mark to market

and through, future pricing of these bonds for duration, [00:09:00] the the rating, the

The ratings on those bonds actually do come into effect. Interesting. So is it only the investment banks and not just regular, commercial bank?

My guess and opinion is yes, but I honestly, I really don’t know. Yeah. I don’t know that.

You know what? I’ve never been a bond guy. I’ve never followed it, honestly, before this year, this is the first time ever I’ve ever bought treasuries for a client and I know

my career. Same here. I follow it, but, certainly I’m not an expert in how the rating agencies and

the investment banks work with that. But if I had to guess, I would say, yes, I, I’ve

never been in a situation. I was meeting with a client yesterday and, they’ve got, I think I’ve got, they’ve got 6 figures sitting in and CDs like.

I could get you an extra one and a quarter percent just by being in treasuries, right?

At this point. It’s just ridiculous. Look, it’s very much of an old school mentality. Even T bills are an old school mentality, they’re [00:10:00] look, most of the banks

that are out there, nobody’s even going in them there for their for advertisements on corners.

But there are still people with mentality is I could still walk into a branch. I could get money, and if I need safety, I could do CDs there. There’s still that, that baseline

mentality with a bank. Yeah, just absolutely amazing to me that that we’ve come to this

world. And how fast it’s changed. In a year. The banks need the deposits and they need the

money and the CDs Yeah. To to be able to lay down and make money on that money. Yeah. But

when people are pulling out money and putting it in the T-bills believe it or not, the banks are suffering. That’s why they’re talking about so much cash on the sidelines. I include T-bills as part

of that cash number. Oh, I think so. It’s, it is just short term. It’s short term money, it’s just different type of short term money. So what’s your thoughts? We’re, we’ve certainly

seen a little bit of a blow off here this last few days. What’s your thoughts [00:11:00] on the direction of the market here moving, let’s say the next

two to three months. Look, I’m on record. We’ve talked about it enough here that I think

we could be in the first quarter of a recession by economic terms by Q4. Last week, technically,

I was talking to another colleague of mine. I think we had a short term blow off top. Technically, there was a an indicator that

more or less said that we probably were at the top of a short term trend. So I think we’re going to go negative to sideways at least. For the next 60, maybe 90 days. And

I think once we get to the end of Q3, where we are based on economically, what they decide

to do with the fed rate in September, what they discuss in Jackson hole in later this

month all the all the, what the G seven, G eight or whatever it is, all the countries coming together at Jackson hall.

I think that’ll really dictate the end of the year. [00:12:00] I don’t, I think we’ve seen the highs for the year. Last week, but I think we’re going to go negative to sideways

next couple of months. How about you? I would say sideways for the next 60 days, and I personally

believe we’ll see another slight run towards the end of the year. I don’t think we’ve seen the highs. For the year yet. I just from my from what I’m looking

at. And historically, if you have a real good front half of the year, you typically have a little bit more run in the back half of the year. My personal belief is we don’t see

any recession this year. And I’ve been on record as saying 1 in the 2nd half of the year. I’m starting to see

that push back at this point. And my expectation is. I think we’ll see it probably in the 1st

quarter of 2024, which we might start the year, especially if we’re seeing that coming

at us, we might, start the beginning of next year in a, in the [00:13:00] whole and that

1st quarter be in the whole. Many of the smart people that I follow that are deep in the weeds in this data much more

than me and you combined. Yeah, many of them have pushed off their timeframe to either

end of the year or first half of next year. Where many of them were saying second half

of this year. I still think, there’s a lot of things that could happen in the next 60

to 90 days. Look, some of the things we’ve already talked about between the student debt moratorium going away, the next fed rate hike, but we’ve seen significant credit tightening with the

banks. Sure. 30 year fixed. Over seven now, seven, two, seven, three. It’s not just teetering

at the seven level. It’s now over 7%. Yeah. The still high vacancies in commercial property. There are many other headwinds,

which we talked about in the last couple of podcasts. None of those have gone away. If anything. They’re rearing their ugly heads a little bit [00:14:00] more just because,

the market’s been going hot. Now, all of a sudden, people are focusing it. The VIX, the fear gauge is now over 16

this morning when it hovered between 12 and 13. 5 over the last 2 months. Yeah. I think

people are taking some money off the table. They’re harvesting their profits. And that’s

why I truly think we’re flat to sideways. The next 60 days, there’s a lot of fun. My managers that may have seen, Hey, let’s lock

in a lot of our gains for the year. Just in case people take more money off the table in the second half. So look, we can argue it both ways. Obviously that’s what makes

for good banter. I just think that we’ve gone too far too fast this year.

And I think we’re going to be I think for the rest of the year, maybe negative. I believe

you’re right. On the point of, I think it was very much irrational exuberance in July.

It’s just ridiculous in July. So I, I agree with you on that point. I just think [00:15:00]

we’re going to see a little bit of. I think a lot of it’s going to come out of what we’re seeing out of, we’re getting reporting

from Apple and Amazon today. So you’re getting some of those big players. We saw Google or

alphabet. The numbers were just astounding how well they’ve done. I think it’s still those big seven. How are they doing? Because that’s what’s really continued

to drive the market, but they’re priced for absolute perfection. So they have to keep delivering above what, that perfection is to keep them rolling. At this point, I heard

a couple of industry experts last night and this morning talking about Amazon and Apple

that they’re going to talk about how wonderful their business is. Yeah, they’re also going to be talking about headwinds in the economy, mainly globally,

not just us based, but they’re going to be talking about headwinds. And I think a lot of that is to lower the bar of expectations so they can try and jump over it 6 to 9 months

from now, which [00:16:00] we all think we’re going to be stepping in a few potholes with the economy.

I think. I think today’s earning announcements will certainly be bell, be bellwethers for the consumer. Absolutely. And I think, from what I was hearing on or on apple, they’ve

got that upgrade cycle. There’s, I think they were saying 50% of. Of apple iPhone holders

have not upgraded in three years or something like that. So they’ve got that future upgrade cycle for the hour. I think it’s the 15 or whatever,

but that’s not even out yet at this point. And so it’s funny you say that I’m not an apple phone guy. I just refuse to have all my money and all my devices in the apple ecosystem.

So I’m an Android guy. I have had my main phone. The longest I ever have. It’s seven years. And actually next week I committed to getting

a new phone just because my battery life, it’s it’s got a leak in it, and I’ve held

onto it every and every software upgrade. My phone got better in the last seven years. Yeah. [00:17:00] I’ve never, I don’t think if I could go back, I don’t think I ever had

a phone more than two and a half years. I usually I, for the longest time I had a Google pixel and Google, it’s like they plan

it, cause it’s designed by Google and they plan it, the battery life right at two years starts to go down at always, you don’t know. I’ve had Samsung’s for the last two phones

and they just keep on going. My battery life doesn’t ever change. It doesn’t seem to have any effect on them. So I don’t

know, and the big thing is look. I’m not doing video and a ton of selfies and and how to

videos with it. So I could care less about the camera. Cause I think the camera that’s in there is fantastic anyway.

Good. It’s almost better than my actual physical camera. So for me, I got all my apps on my

phone. For me, it’s about battery life. Sure. So I’m at the point I really was there six months ago, but if people with, the, with Apple, if their phone’s only a year or two

or three, even three years old.[00:18:00] What are the new features in the phone that’s going to go? Oh, I’ve got to have that new

Apple phone, better video 3d, come on. Don’t tell me AI, I’m going to puke, but what is

in this new Apple phone? That’s going to make the phone from two, three or four years ago, like significant, it’s significantly better.

It’s going to enhance their lives. It’s yeah, it’s nothing new. Yeah. Yeah. They’ve upgraded

the software and everything else, so it really doesn’t matter at that point. I hear you.

I hear you. I want to switch gears a little bit, talk a little bit about some other items, we should probably come up with some of these topics.

You and I both not only help individuals out, but we also set up retirement plans for businesses.

And I thought this was interesting, obviously it’s the data’s a little old, not too bad, but for 2022, I thought there was an interesting disparity between what Vanguard and Fidelity

reported as average 401k balances. Okay. And I thought that it was [00:19:00] interesting because, 112, 000. At retirement,

is it going to go very far? Fidelity has it a little over 97, 000. I saw a report yesterday.

I use 22 as a number, not 2022, but somebody said, somebody says Ron, how much do I need

in retirement? If I require X on an annual basis, I said, just take that number, multiply it by 22.

And that’s your dirty math. Bogey. So if they need 100, 000 a year, they need 2. 2 million.

Rather ironically, I saw a report yesterday that they were talking about the average person

based on, a medium earner, medium to high earner, that if they want to live off their

dividend income, or even use a three to 5% withdrawal rule a year, last year, it was

1. 7 million they recommended. This year bumped up to 1. 8. Okay. So that puts you into the,

around the 75, [00:20:00] 000 range. If you’re looking at a 5% annual dividend yield, give

or take interest dividend, whatever you want to call it. P and I, people talk to me, like they talk to you, what’s better a Roth or an IRA?

And I look, if you’re anti government and you’re trying to save on taxes, the longer that you have to put into a Roth, we all know is better, but there are some people that

need the tax benefit now. Yeah. So coming into, a conversation, and I interested to

hear your opinion because people are coming to me all the time. Sure. People were saying should I do an IRA or a Roth or should I do an IRA or, my company

offers a 401k and they offer a Roth option. Should I do pre tax or Roth? And I can’t believe

how many people are just not familiar with the benefits of the Roth because. When they’re

looking at these things, they’re trying to figure out which is the better way to go. And I don’t know what you recommend, but what I tell people, especially in their 20s, 30s

and 40s. I say, look, we know who’s in the White House [00:21:00] now. We don’t know who’s going to be in the White House before you’re ready to retire. When you’re ready

to retire, meaning we don’t know what the tax rates are going to be, but we, I do know 1 thing and I think you can agree.

Taxes in the future are only going to go in one direction, right? Even when you retire,

your tax bracket is going to go down. But the idea is after the age of 59 and a half,

government can’t touch your Roth money. So if you have 10 years or more to go, what I

typically advise people is look. You got a hundred, 200, 500, 000 sitting in your 401k

or your IRA. You can’t, you don’t want to convert that all at one time. Cause if you’re a high earner, that’s a hell of a tax bill. Yeah. But what I typically will tell people, you got more

than 10 years to go do five or 10% a year. Yeah, convert, just get on a schedule every

year, do it in January or February. This way you have 12, 13 or 14 months to pay off those

taxes and [00:22:00] down below. I’m not going to go through all of them, but these are typically the questions that I go

through with an average person. You have to talk about either Roth conversion or if they’re asking me if it’s worth it, if they got at least five years or to go to retirement. Maybe

you want to do a portion, but even if you do a portion, it really doesn’t give you enough time to let the Roth money that you converted grow enough to make up for the taxes.

If you have 10 years or more, absolutely. Get on a schedule, basically a no brainer

at that point. Yeah. What do you, how do you typically advise your clients? Some are only a little different, pretty much the same. I like to, if they’ve got the capacity. So

let’s say they’re not somebody that’s in a super high tax bracket. If they’re the average Joe, that’s making 6 figures a year, low 6 figures a year. I

will tell them to accelerate that process a little bit. Instead of 10 years, we convert it over a 5 year period of [00:23:00] time. And accelerate and then that gives us time

for that to recover. Let’s say if they’re 15 years before retirement, we accelerate it through 5.

And then that gives us 10 years for those monies to recover. At that point, so that’s typically my strategy when it comes to that, and I deal with a lot of folks that work in

the high tech industry. So they’re always getting. They’re getting RSUs and things like

that. So we typically use. That found money that you get in those, I, it’s already a good salary. They’re getting

this kind of found money through and things along those lines. For those of you who don’t

know what that is, it’s a restricted stock unit. So it’s effectively taking your part

of your compensation, giving it to you in the form of company stock. But that stock is restricted for a period of years, so maybe 3 to 4 years. That money

is restricted so you can’t spend it. It’s [00:24:00] whatever happens in the stock during

that time period and then that gets put on to your income. It’s pretty much found money

for a lot of folks. So we use that as found money to pay down your taxes.

And then convert some dollars from there, but I like to really accelerate that as quickly as possible so that we can let that those Roth dollars do it. No, what about in a retirement

plan? Yeah, because I tell people, especially under 55 or 6 or 50, I said, you should be

doing a hybrid as a hedge. Meaning put at least 50% on both sides, 50% pre tax, 50% Roth, because you get some tax

benefit now, but you’re going to get a tax benefit later. And then once they get into their fifties they skew it maybe 75% towards Roth, 25% towards IRA, because you really

want it to work in your favor. So after the age of 59 and a half, the government can’t touch it.

A lot of it will depend on whether they need the tax [00:25:00] benefit now, but certainly to push more towards Roth is only going to benefit them later. And I love the conspiracy

theorists that think the government is going to tax that Roth money. No, they can’t. It’s illegal. Number one. And number two, there’d be a civil war.

I know they need to increase their tax base, but they can’t change the law and do double taxation. I think we had the Boston tea poor party some 250 years ago that told us that

can’t be done again. And then we had the tea party a few years back too, because of the

same, some of the same things that were being considered. I think the other side of it is I get a lot of times I’ll get people that are in their

60s, that are close to retirement and they’re asking me should I convert? In most cases,

you’ve got to run the numbers and see if it works. But in most cases, I tell people to

leave things as is. I’m a big believer in what you’re talking about of blending those, maybe 50 50 or whatever

of Roth versus [00:26:00] traditional. One thing you have to remember though, is always

you’re matching. So if you’re going to do it 50 50, you’re matching is always going to be pre tax. So you need to factor that in.

You don’t want to just go 50 50 because that means you’re going your 401k will be skewed

towards pre tax. A little bit more in retirement. That’s why if you are a high earner and you’re

over 50 and you could do 30, 000 a year, 22, five plus 7, 500, then you should do 75% of

your contributions in a Roth, because if you’re going to get the rest in a match, then that

will level it out a bit. Absolutely. Yeah. Like I said, I think I personally believe in the Roth. I, I look at it as. I

probably pay more taxes today than I will in the future. But I still pretty much skew

most of my money towards the Roth when it comes to that type of retirement plan savings.

I’m just not a big fan of [00:27:00] making the the the IRS, my business partner in retirement,

cause they’re a really terrible business partner because they want. Yeah, they want 30 or 40% of my money. So I’m not a big fan of that. I’d rather be with

the Roth. And if there was ever a change to the rules where they outlawed the Roth, they’re still going to, the they’ll grandfathered in. Otherwise people would vote everybody

out of office that made up. There’s no way there’s no will for getting rid of the Roth. No, not at all. And I think,

and I think the fact that they have an unlimited amount that you can convert just says exactly

what it is. Okay. If you want to convert, then you’re going to pay us taxes, which is what we want. We’re fine with you not paying taxes later, but we want our money now in

those cases, but as I like to tell my clients, my goal is I’m a risk manager and if I could

save you taxes, I think you could spend that difference in what in this, in the tax savings a lot better than the government [00:28:00] can and every single one of the agrees, so

the idea is at the end of the day, put more, put more money away that you’re not going to pay in taxes later on because you’re going to need it.

And the other side of the coin is, we’re talking about an example of, what you were saying, okay, 1. 7 million. That’s 1. 7 million. If I was paying full taxes, if I’m paying, if

I’m actually, if I’ve got mostly Roth money or tax free money, there’s other strategies

too, that you can use to create tax free money. The beauty of tax free money is. I don’t need as much money to generate the same amount

of income in those cases. No, I agree. But it’s always an interesting conversation and

I’m not surprised or shocked anymore, but it doesn’t matter the age of the individual. Yeah. They just have put money into their 401k.

Nobody ever advised them to even consider a Roth if the Roth was available or doing any kind of Roth conversion. And [00:29:00] I’m sure you’ve had the same. Life stage people

approach you like they approached me, all of a sudden they’re in their mid to late fifties, early sixties. And they’re, they got all this money sitting on the pre tax side and they

never converted. And if they would have talked to us or at least been advised 10 or 15 years prior. They

would have been a much better shape of retirement because the Roth becomes a piggy bank at that

age. And it’s like I said, once again, you don’t have to use as much money to generate the same amount of income.

So I’m a huge fan, my young people that I deal with that are in their 20s and 30s. It’s

100% Roth. With them, it’s just going to be better in the long run. It’s, there, there’s

other income reducing strategies that you can use with real estate and other things.

That are, I think, better vehicles to, to lower your taxable income and just use the

Roth as a vehicle to where you can grow a big [00:30:00] pile of tax free money. And still, you’re going to be limited on what you can put in. If you don’t have a 401k,

all you can do is a Roth IRA in those cases. There’s some insurance strategies you could

use to, to build up tax free money too. But, if you’ve got a 401k alternative, That’s a ton of money that you can plow in every

year that’s tax free. And if the company matches then that’s going to be taxable money. But

I look at, I always look at that as found money. It’s found money for me. I’ve got it and it’s yes, I have to pay tax on it, but it’s money that I didn’t really.

I didn’t have to put up at that point. And a lot of people just either never had a good

advisor or no advisor at all. And most people just wow, my money’s in my 401k. They don’t

know what it’s invested in. Many of them don’t even know what their contribution rate. Some of them can’t even tell you the match formula.

No, with it. And look, I realize you got to live your life, but [00:31:00] it’s your money.

It’s your investment. So they know the market goes up and down. At least they recognize that. But, at the end of the day, there are strategies that you could do, even though

you have limited Asset choices. There are other things that you can do to really save yourself money over time. And

if you’re not going to work with an advisor, take five, 10 minutes and research it. Yeah. Educate yourself on it. That’s part of what we exist for is to share this type of information

with you. So hopefully this will be worthwhile for you to at least.

Sparky to go, hey, I need to talk to somebody about it, and I would say, Ron and I both

were here. If you’ve got questions, or if you need help with, is this a good idea? We’re

here to help with that type of stuff. That’s why we do these shows. If not us, find somebody

that is close to you that can can take a look at it for you and see if it’s worth your while.

That’s the same thing with RMD folks, because you don’t pay an RMD with a [00:32:00] Roth.

So if you’re sheltering more towards the Roth side of it you’re not gonna need to pay the R M D. And anybody that’s taken an R M D knows the first three to five years is when the

government gets a nice chunk of that money taken out. So you gotta pay in taxes. So that’s just another consideration too, that most people

don’t realize ’cause they wanna retire at 60, 65, but until they hit their r and d range

in 70 to 70 to two, they’re like, oh crap. I should have started converting back in my forties and fifties.

That’s exactly right. Things go, we should probably do a podcast, in the next month or so, just talking about R M D. So I totally agree. That’s another topic of conversation.

Totally agree. Good man, I thought this was good stuff. We. We will keep sharing more

and more of this type of stuff with you. Cause the show’s more about, it’s more than just about the markets about good planning

topics. And I thought this was a really effective one today, Ron. So thank you for putting that together. Cause it’s a topic that [00:33:00] everybody needs to be thinking about right

now. Oh, good. All right, very cool. Folks, thank you for joining us today. We’re here every week. We put these shows up on

Thursday every week. So make sure that you are subscribed to the channel so that you

get notification as soon as we put them up and we will see you guys back here next week.